Football Manager - When your player turns 23 years old |
- When your player turns 23 years old
- i know its ready when its ready
- when your trying to get rid of players at the start of the season and you get an email the next day saying ‘no offers for 17 players’
- Made by Jack @workthespace
- How will this impact hoarding wonder kids?
- Taking player development to the next level: An in-depth guide on player personalities and what they mean, and a detailed statistical analysis on why Determination is overrated in regards to player development.
- Took me 20 seasons but finally
- Today I found out that that FM can pick up on your profanity in interviews, as I learnt in my drunk state when I actually decided to add something in the additional comments for once
- I created a desktop wallpaper with the FMFC logo, minus the words of FM FC above the badge. It's pretty minimal but feel free to use it.
- Yeah cool, didn't want to go invincible or centurion anyway
- Erling Haaland in a 4-2-3-1 gegenpress is just a little op i think
- Outrageous that Oxford have a player like this.
- MAGA: Make Arsenal Great Again: Implementing Wenger's Philosophies in FM21
- Who needs one v ones fixed when the opposing defenders do all the work for me
- Great Success?
- Poor lad, never stood a chance
- I always have golden generation youth intakes but never a player like this. How good do you reckon this guy could be?
- Is Paul Dummett the second coming of Roberto Carlos or can Chelsea still not defend well? You decide!
- When your player becomes your boss
- Finally After 15 Seasons of Domination, I Knock Bayern Off the Top.
- I'm not sure I'm on board with this guy...
- Beta available announcement on Instagram?
When your player turns 23 years old Posted: 09 Nov 2020 08:40 AM PST
| ||
i know its ready when its ready Posted: 09 Nov 2020 09:25 AM PST
| ||
Posted: 09 Nov 2020 02:18 AM PST
| ||
Posted: 09 Nov 2020 07:29 AM PST
| ||
How will this impact hoarding wonder kids? Posted: 09 Nov 2020 08:45 AM PST
| ||
Posted: 09 Nov 2020 12:48 PM PST First of all, this is will probably end up being a very long post, and I never really wrote something like this, so I hope I can format it well enough to make it look tidy. I also will be breaking it into several parts so you can skip to the ones that interest you the most. In this post we are going to go through the following topics:
I do realize that I'm making this guide right before FM21 beta drops, but I see no reason why it shouldn't still apply to that game. So, without further ado, let's get started. 1- What are HA?Aside from the normal attributes that you can see in a player's screen, there are 13 other attributes that will be hidden from you unless you use the in-game editor. Just like all other attributes, they're rated from 1 to 20. These come in 2 categories: Volatile HA and non-Volatile HA. #### Non-Volatile HA #### These, as the name indicates, are HA that will not change under any circumstances (as far as I know, I am but one person, please forgive my mistakes). There are 6 of these attributes:
These should be self-explanatory and will not be the topic of discussion of this post, but they are still very important. If you want to get a feeling of what these attributes are for a given player, you will find hints in their scout reports. That is the only way besides using an editor that you have of getting a feel for what these attributes might be. (Although you can make guesses on something like injury proneness based on how many injuries a player usually gets) #### Volatile HA #### These will be the stars of the show. These HA can change over time, most notably via mentoring, but also based on the squad personality. There are 7 of them, and these are:
So this post doesn't get too long, you can check out what each of them supposedly does here: Now, to determine these HA, scout reports will be no help. You can of course make guesses from how a player behaves (per example, if a player openly criticises you, it might be a sign of high controversy), but the only way to extrapolate hard, definitive data, is through the player's Personality and Media Handling Style (MHS for short). The player's personality is also affected by the leadership and Determination attributes, so we will consider them to basically be HA for the purposes of this post, despite being very much not hidden. 2- How can we determine them?There are a few guides out there that explain how to extrapolate HA from personality and MHS, but every single one I have found, I later discovered to either be slightly outdated, slightly inaccurate, or completely miss the mark by a lot. But you can easily tell that I have 14-20 Determination, 14-20 Ambition, 14-20 Professionalism and 1-9 Temperament, because I am a Perfectionist. And as such, I am very information hungry and so I will go out of my way to extrapolate as much hard and accurate data as I can. So, I bought the in-game editor and took matters into my own hands, and began to tweak the numbers around to see when personalities changed, and skipping the boring details, I believe I have learned everything there is to know about what a personality and MHS can say about the HA. Do however keep in mind this was a one man job and it took me many days, so there are bound to be a couple of mistakes, but by double checking with what other online guides were saying, I believe mistakes have been kept to a minimum. The text file with all the details can be found here, but I will go into detail in this post to try to explain to you how to interpret it. So basically, the game takes the 9 HA (the 7 we mentioned + Determination and Leadership), and turns them into a corresponding personality and MHS. What is important to note is that 2 players with the exact same HA will have the exact same personality and MHS, but two players with the exact same personality and MHS won't have the exact same HA necessarily, even though chances are they will be similar. The best that a personality and MHS can do is give you a range of values for some of the HA. It is very common that a Personality and MHS combination won't even tell you anything about a given HA, either directly or indirectly. It's also important to note that personalities and MHS work a bit differently. #### Personality #### If you check the text file above, personalities will give a range of values for some HA (Per example, perfectionist tells you that a player has 14-20 in professionalism, ambition and determination, and 1-9 in temperament). A player will only have a single personality at a given time. Of course it can change, but you can't have 2 of them at once. This is relevant because there are plenty of personalities that give HA ranges that can overlap. Per example, a player with 19 Loyalty, 6 Ambition, 10 Temperament, 10 Determination, 18 Professionalism and 10 Leadership would fall into both the Loyal personality but also the Professional personality. So, in this particular case, what would happen? Well, basically, some personalities have priority over others (in this case, professional would win). This is VERY relevant because it can give you some extra information. In the text file, I have written in front of each personality every single other personality that can possibly overlap with it and takes priority. The relevance here is that, if you have say a Loyal player, you can be absolutely sure that his HA won't fall into the Professional range, or else this would take priority. Professional means 18-20 professionalism and 10-20 temperament, so if you happen to know that the player has high temperament via his MHS, then you can gain the extra information that his professionalism is at most 17. It may look like a very small detail, but if you make a careful analysis you can gain a lot of information. One thing I do in my save is keep track of the HA of all my high potential youngsters every month and register every change. By doing this, when you notice a change that indicates that either one of 2 HA must have changed, you can sometimes tell which one it is just based on yout past analysis and the fact that you've kept track. I know this may already look confusing, but MHS is where it gets really tricky. #### MHS #### Unlike personalities, a player can have multiple MHS, up to 3 at once in fact, but extrapolating all the data from this is not quite as simple as simply combining the ranges of all the MHS's. Even though you can have more than 1 MHS, there is still a priority system of sorts in place, that I have tried to explain the the pastebin. Basically, some MHS's will hide others. A player that is Outspoken will hide the MHS Level Headed, even if it has the stats for it. This means that if you have a player that is Outspoken only, you can use the information that he must therefore not be Unflappable, but you can't use the information that he is not Level Headed. It does however get even a bit trickier than that. Imagine you have MHS's A, B and C such that MHS A hides MHS B, but doesn't hide C, and MHS B hides MHS C, and the player happens to have MHS A and not C, and if you know he should have MHS C, then you can also conclude that he must have the HA to have MHS B. This is because if a player has the stats to have MHS B but doesn't actually have that MHS, it will still hide MHS C as if he had it. So, since it was hidden, and MHS A doesn't hide C, he must also have B. Confusing? Let me give you a example. From the pastebin you can see that Volatile hides Level Headed, but it doesn't hide Media Friendly. Level Headed however, does hide Media Friendly. This means that if a player has Volatile in his MHS, but not media friendly or outspoken, then Media Friendly has been hidden. This is because Media Friendly indicates a player that has 1-14 controversy while Outspoken indicates 15-20, so a player must always fall under one of these ranges. If a player is Volatile, but not outspoken or Media Friendly, Media Friendly must have been hidden by another MHS (since Outspoken is never hidden), in this case, the Level Headed MHS, that was itself hidden by Volatile. If this is all too confusing, you can check this guide. It is outdated, so pay no attention to the personality part, but I believe that the MHS part has not been changed. I personally don't fully comprehend it, but it might be easier for you. #### The Process #### Now that I've explained everything in detail, what you should do to extrapolate the maximum ammount of data is, first you get the ranges from the personalities, then the ranges from the MHS, taking into account potential hidden MHS, then you get all the information you can based on the MHS that you know a player doesn't have, and then you see which personalities would take priority over the one the player has and if you can get information off of that. Personally, I have in game notes for some of my influential players that I use to mentor, with all their HA information. Besides that, I keep track of the HA's of my promising youngsters every in-game month and note down every change. After a while you will begin to get very accurate ranges of what their HA's must be. But now let's ask the big question. 3- Why does any of this matter? (A statistical analysis)You might be wondering why I'd be so obsessed to find out with precision the HA of my players. I mean, you have probably been playing FM for years without doing any of this and it turned out just fine for you, so why would you care to go through all this trouble? Well, to be completely honest, you can easily get away with the simple "Huh, look, resolute, that's a good personality I think. High Determination too? This kid is going to fullfil his potential!", but that is just barely scratching the surface of how player development works. Now of course there are plenty of things that affect a player's development that you already are aware of and have taken into consideration, like the training facilites, the quality of your coaches, play time, injuries... But some HA will also allegedly affect player development. Unsurprinsingly, determination is one of them, but ambition and professionalism are also a factor. And so I raised some questions:
The answers may surprise you So how did I answer these questions? A good old FM simulation of course! In total I ran 3 different simulations, one for each of these 3 questions. #### Experiment 1: How much does it matter? #### To answer this, I went to the absolute extremes of the spectrum. I picked two random 16 yo CM's in Benfica's B team, gave them both 200 potential, the absolute maximum, and gave one of them absolutely perfect Volatile HA, and the other one the absolute worst Volatile HA. I gave them both perfect non-volatile HA as we are not interested in studying those, and also I don't want injuries to be a factor. I also gave Benfica perfect youth and training facilities. Two players with the potential to be the greatest of all time! And so I ran the simulation... To the surprise of absolutely no one, the perfect HA player quickly reached the 200 potential he had and got a big move to Real Madrid where he stayed for the rest of his career and went on to become one of the greatest footballers to ever play the game as was expected of him. Curiously he did only win 1 Ballon d'or and 4 Footballer of the year awards, but this was largely because of me being bored and playing the the database a bit for fun, like making every City player absolutely perfect. Some screenshots of this player: 1 2 3 You may however be surprised by just how bad the other player did. Personally I expected him to at least be playing at a first division level regularly just based on his potential alone. But no. He was much worse than that. In fact, he mostly played in Portugal's second division and barely got any first division football at all! And of course, he never even made it to the national team. With a potential of 200, he peaked at only about 101(!). Some screenshots of this player: 1 2 3 4 5 Of course, this experiment was taken to the absolute extreme, and won't exactly reflect how real player development goes, so we're moving on to experiment 2. #### Experiment 2: Do other HA affect development? #### So the first experiment was pretty barebones, but the next 2 will be much more robust and were therefore handled with much more care and attention to detail. As such, I took notes after every season with some important details, they're all compiled in this spreadsheet here. I will now explain these experiments in detail so you can understand the spreadsheet, analyse the data and come to your own conclusions. In this experiment I used 20 different players in 4 different teams. I used Benfica, Sporting, Porto and Famalicão for this experiment and maxed out their facilities. Each team got 2 of the 8 HA (I ignored leadership for this experiment), and out of those 2 HA, they got a player that was average at everything except that one HA, where I had one with 1, and one with 20. Finally, I also gave each of them one average player as some sort of control case. If you're confused, basically, Porto got a player with 10 at everything except professionalism, that was 20, another player that was the same but with 1 professionalism, 2 more players that were the same but with pressure, and a control case player that was average at everything. I also made all their normal attributes 10 across the board (which meant they all started at around 74 Current Ability, depending however on their position), and made sure that, if High Loyalty is a LW, then Low Loyalty is a RW, so that the comparison is fair but they also don't get in each other's way. I also decided that, because injuries and such are part of a player's development, I should have all the non-volatile HA at 10. This may have been a mistake, as it added more variance than I would have liked, but I made sure to at least mark down every significant injury and roughly how severe it was in the spreadsheet to give full context. Finally, as I expected Ambition, Determination and Professionalism to be the only ones to actually have any effect, I kept tab of how those players developed every single season by noting down their Current Ability at the end of the season. Also, for the first few years, I brought them back if they got a transfer away, since I wanted them to all work under the same environment for as long as possible. And the results? Well, you can judge them yourself, but it's clear that all those with low ambition, professionalism or determination failed miserably. High Amb and mostly High Prof suceeded, and ironically, High Det was worse than the control case of the same club, but this can be attributed to a couple of bad injuries early on in his career. However, still a surprising result, as well as evidence of just how much an injury can matter. I took note of the ratings of all 20 players when they were 28 and when they were 32. The results are also in the spreadsheet. There were some standouts like Low Temper and High Controversy absolutely flopping HARD, while Low Loyalty surpassed even High Amb. Now this could be seen a a weird sign that controversial players develop worse, and that temperament is also important, but to get a clearer pictures, I took stock of their HA age 32, specifically Determination, Ambition and Professionalism. This is where I noticed just how volatile these are. Looking at Low Temper and High Cont, it's clear their HA are atrocious, namely professionalism and ambition, while Low Loyalty had great HA, namely professionalism. I also took note of their relative change of rating between ages 28 and 32 to test if professionalism does indeed affect how late a player will start declining, and it does seem to hold for the most part. Finally, the other interesting take from this experiment is that players naturally gained determination and mostly professionalism over the years, but actually lost a bit of ambition. I'm not sure if this is what is expected of every FM save, but I did notice that most of the clubs these players played for had a squad personality of Highly Professional, so it could be a testament to how much squad personality matters. #### Experiment 3: Which of the 3 is the most important HA? #### Now while I admit the last experiment may have not been as conclusive as I would like, I'm confortable enough assuming that Ambition, Determination and Professionalism are the only HA to directly affect a players development. Working on this assumption, the final experiment is meant to determine which of them is more important. Based on the last experiment, my guess was that professionalism might be the most important attribute in player development, but let's take a look at what happened. For this experiment I used just 6 players. Three that had 2 of the HA's at 1 and the other at 20, and three that had 1 of the HA's at 10 and the others at 15. These players will be known as Prof, Det, Amb, Prof/Det, Prof/Amb and Det/Amb. All other Volatile HA's were at 10 and this time I made their non-Volatile HA's pefect, as I wanted as little interference from injuries as possible. One interesting thing I noted is that having high consistency apparently affects a players Current Ability quite a lot, as these players started at 96 or 97 CA, depending on position. So I guess a player's consistency might be more important than you're giving it credit for. The players were distributed among Benfica, Porto and Sporting. I took notes of every season of every player just as last time, so now let's look at the results on the spreadsheet. The first thing to notice is that Prof fullfiled his potential, showing that professionalism alone can be enough, while Det and Amb weren't so lucky. Among the other 3, paradoxically, Det/Amb was the one that did better, despite Prof/Amb getting the stronger start. They did both reach the full potential regardless, the same can't be said about Prof/Det however, who definitely did very well, but not quite as well as the other 2. Again, looking at just these results doesn't seem to give a clear answer, however, similar to last experiment, I took note of their HA in a later stage of their careers to look for answers, this time at age 33, as well as taking their ratings at ages 28, 32, and this time 35 as well. And when looking at the new HA, you get an answer as clear as day. Professionalism is clearly the most important HA in player development. It turns out that Det/Amb actually surpassed the other 2 in professionalism. Between Ambition and Determination, it seems unclear which one matters more, but all things considered I would guess ambition. Again, players with high professionalism take longer to decline, and that is even cleared in this experiment. And finally, the same strange phenomenon of players gaining a lot of professionalism and a bit of determination, while losing ambition occured. 4- Final Remarks/What the community can doTo finalize, I am convinced that I have proven through intensive simulation that professionalism is indeed the most important attribute in terms of player development, while determination is vastly overrated. If you want to take player development to the next level, it might be a good idea to do this in-depth analysis of players' personalities and MHS to extrapolate their HA in order to match them with the right mentors. It's also important to try and achieve a professional squad personality (You can see this in the club tab). When signing new players, you may want to look further that just the potential star rating, and make a quick analysis of his HA. Avoid low professionalism players, as they will almost certainly not fullfil their potentials. Low determination with high professionalism however, should not be a huge issue. It would be perfectly possible for a player with 1 determination to do better than one with 20, but the same can't be said about professionalism. So, what can the community do to add on to this post? Well, there is a HA Calculator which would be very helpful... if it were up to date. Unfortunately it is only useful for older FM versions, and there seems to be no equivalent to newer FM's, so, someone with the know-how and programming skills could definitely create something similar and be a huge help to anyone who wants to start doing this, as it would save a lot of time on boring calculations and analysis. You can also run similar simulations to try and see if my conclusions here are correct, or maybe try and build from this into somthing new. And finally, you can also let me know of any mistakes I may have commited throughout this post, namely in the personalities pastebin, and also feel free to leave your interpretation of the data in the comments. I know I'm a little bit sloppy, so if anyone wants to improve my pastebin to make it easier to understand, feel free, and I hope my sloppiness didn't show in this post, I'm doing my best to have it nice and tidy. Feel free to leave any questions in the comments as I know some things may have been confusing. That's all, have fun playing FM21, and feel free to use this guide to help you in your journeys! [link] [comments] | ||
Took me 20 seasons but finally Posted: 09 Nov 2020 08:47 AM PST
| ||
Posted: 09 Nov 2020 05:57 PM PST
| ||
Posted: 09 Nov 2020 04:49 PM PST
| ||
Yeah cool, didn't want to go invincible or centurion anyway Posted: 09 Nov 2020 12:13 PM PST
| ||
Erling Haaland in a 4-2-3-1 gegenpress is just a little op i think Posted: 09 Nov 2020 05:32 PM PST
| ||
Outrageous that Oxford have a player like this. Posted: 09 Nov 2020 10:11 AM PST
| ||
MAGA: Make Arsenal Great Again: Implementing Wenger's Philosophies in FM21 Posted: 09 Nov 2020 09:06 PM PST
| ||
Who needs one v ones fixed when the opposing defenders do all the work for me Posted: 09 Nov 2020 10:47 AM PST
| ||
Posted: 09 Nov 2020 02:46 AM PST
| ||
Poor lad, never stood a chance Posted: 09 Nov 2020 04:49 AM PST
| ||
Posted: 09 Nov 2020 10:54 AM PST
| ||
Posted: 09 Nov 2020 08:44 PM PST
| ||
When your player becomes your boss Posted: 09 Nov 2020 07:41 PM PST | ||
Finally After 15 Seasons of Domination, I Knock Bayern Off the Top. Posted: 09 Nov 2020 01:23 PM PST
| ||
I'm not sure I'm on board with this guy... Posted: 09 Nov 2020 07:46 AM PST
| ||
Beta available announcement on Instagram? Posted: 09 Nov 2020 08:43 PM PST Tonight around 7:45pm CST, I was in the process of putting my daughter to bed. The routine involves a lot of steps, some done by mommy and some done by me. Some parts take awhile, so I often have my phone out while they're happening. I opened up IG, and one of the first things I saw was a post from Football Manager on IG of a graphic saying the beta had been released, if you've pre-ordered go download it, enjoy the game, etc. I 'liked' it, knew what I'd be doing tonight once kiddo was asleep and the wife and I had our normal Monday night, and put my phone away. 10:30pm CST rolls around, I come to my PC and imagine my surprise when I can't find the beta anywhere. I've looked on IG, no sign of the post - including in my history of 'likes'. I know what I saw; I'm not crazy. At least, I don't think I'm crazy. Did ANYONE else see it too? I'm guessing they just posted it at the wrong time and immediately deleted it, and I happened to see it in the brief interim. But I can't find anyone else who has said anything about it on Twitter, Reddit, etc. Regardless - leads me to believe tomorrow must be the day, since I thought it was tonight! [link] [comments] |
You are subscribed to email updates from Football Manager Forums - FootballManagerGames. To stop receiving these emails, you may unsubscribe now. | Email delivery powered by Google |
Google, 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043, United States |
No comments:
Post a Comment